Prisoners of War in New Mexico Agriculture
Abstract of Interview
CONSULTANT:
Ed Remondini, Clara Jo (Jody) McSherry, and G.X. McSherry
TAPE NUMBER: RG99-005
DATE
OF BIRTH: Ed: December 12, 1912; Jody: March 28, 1927; G.X.: November 23,
1924
SEX:
Ed and G.X.: Male; Jody: Female
DATE(S)
OF INTERVIEW: December 1, 1998; January 14, 1999; January 19, 1999
LOCATION
OF INTERVIEW: McSherry Residence, rural Deming (December 1, 1998 and January
19, 1999); Remondini residence, rural Deming (January 14, 1999)
INTERVIEWER:
Jane O’Cain
SOURCE OF INTERVIEW: NMF&RHM__x_ OTHER___________
TRANSCRIBED:
YES___x____
NO_______
NUMBER
OF TAPES: Eight
ABSTRACTOR:
O’Cain
DATE
ABSTRACTED: June 7, 8, and 11, 2001
QUALITY
OF RECORDING (SPECIFY): Good, although recording is interrupted by a chiming
clock on the first and last interview sessions.
SCOPE
AND CONTENT NOTE: The history of an irrigated farm near Deming, New Mexico,
homesteaded in 1909 by an Austrian immigrant family to the present time (1999).
DATE
RANGE: 1900 – 1999
ABS
TAPE
ONE, SIDE A:
The
first interview session was held on December 1, 1998, with siblings Edward
Remondini and Clara Jo “Jody” McSherry.
Their father was born in the Austrian province of Tyrol (it has been part
of Italy since the end of World War I). Her
father was born in 1879 and became an American citizen in 1900.
They discuss their father’s history between the time he first left
Austria and when he became a citizen. He
had very little formal education, but knew several languages and was
self-taught. When first arriving in
the United States, he went to live near relatives (actually their mother’s
family) in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan.
Their
mother was also born in Tyrol in 1889 and immigrated with her family to the
United States as an infant. The
consultants’ parents married in Michigan and had two children.
Their father worked as a miner. Their
father went by the name Joe and their mother, Mary.
They were married in 1905. The
two oldest children, Irene and David, were born in 1907 and 1908, respectively.
After
David’s birth (1908), Joe and a friend, Joe Franzoy, came west to look for
work in the mines at Morenci, Arizona. They
didn’t find work there, but on their way back to Michigan Joe Remondini was
offered a job on a farm at the railroad station in Deming.
Also hanging in the station was a sign advertising “Free Land.”
Remondini decided to stay in New Mexico, and homesteaded 160 acres (seven
miles east of Deming).
Eventually,
Mrs. Remondini and the two children joined her husband and they lived in a tent
on the homestead; the land was covered in “mesquite and sandhills.”
But they were near the Mimbres River, and when it flooded it covered the
land with rich, alluvial soil. They
discuss floods and changes in the course of the river, also Florida Lake that is
no longer a feature in the landscape.
A
few families were already farming in the area when Remondini filed on his
homestead in 1909.
TAPE
ONE, SIDE B:
Continue
discussing some of the families in the area who attempted farming, but were not
successful at it. Joe Remondini did
not have an agricultural background, but became a successful farmer, although Ed
Remondini states, “ . . . that took years and years to do.”
Joe Remondini worked for the Dornbush brothers for seven or eight years
while he cleared the land of mesquite and dug a well twenty-five feet deep for
irrigation.
Eventually
the Remondinis built a small frame house on the farm.
Twins were born in Deming in 1912, Ed and Olive.
A daughter born in 1910 died as an infant. In 1915, Mary returned to Michigan and gave birth to a
daughter, Dorothy. All of her
children born in Deming were born at home, although Ed thought that their mother
might have moved into Deming before his and Olive’s birth. (The trip into Deming from the farm would take all day in the
wagon, particularly as their mother bartered produce, chickens, or turkeys for
staples that were needed.) Jody
McSherry stated that neighbor women would assist one another with the birth of
their children. In the case of Mary
Remondini’s twins, she had delivered the first child by herself, before the
doctor arrived. Her next child
after Dorothy, a boy, Robert was born in 1919.
Jody was born in 1927.
The
consultants discuss various country schools and their locations in the area.
Description
of clearing mesquite from the land with a “shovel and an ax.”
The mesquite root is large, and the root was cut into firewood; it was a
good wood to burn and the family used it for cooking for many years.
Jody tells a story of her father using the wind to remove loose sand and
level land.
To
begin with Joe Remondini grew vegetables (lettuce, cabbage) in the five or six
acre field he had cleared. Truck
farming was done for several years.
Began
discussion of an occasion when the Mimbres River flowed.
TAPE
TWO, SIDE A:
Mr.
Remondini discussed that the river would never flow like that again, because the
water table has dropped due to the amount of water that has been pumped out. Discusses a fifteen-foot well that was dug at the house.
At places the water table was so near the surface that water could be
found just below the surface. Floods
deposit a great deal of sand and silt, and over time, change the land formation.
Mr.
Remondini describes the irrigation system used when he was a child.
Their first pumping plant engine ran on “distillate,” once it was
started with gasoline. They pumped
the water into an “open dirt ditch” that flowed by gravity to the field.
Irrigation “was my main job for several years.”
Discusses the pond near the house used to water the livestock and as a
swimming pool. Water was carried in
pails to the house from the windmill.
By
1924, Joe and Mary Remondini had built the house where Jody and G.X. McSherry
now reside. They were gradually
putting more fields into production as the land was cleared.
Ed Remondini describes the pumping plant engine being brought out across
the sandhills in a wagon pulled by “teams.”
Ed believes they first got electricity to the farm in 1928 or 1929.
Eggs,
as well as vegetables, were taken to town to use for trade.
Celery and asparagus were two of the vegetable crops that were grown.
In the 1920s and 1930s, the Remondinis began to grow potatoes.
Ed recalls one year they loaded nine boxcars of potatoes and shipped from
the Luxor railroad stop. During the
Depression one year they sold potatoes for $0.90 a hundred-pound sack. Pinto beans were also being raised. The family also raised sweet potatoes, but they were labor
intensive as they had to be “cured,” by drying them in a consistent eighty
degree heat. They kept a
“pot-bellied” stove going in a cellar in order to achieve the desired
conditions for sweet potatoes.
Jody
McSherry discusses the work done by her mother: starting plants in cold frames,
gardening, raising chickens and turkeys, including incubating the eggs.
Eggs were packed and sold in town.
Tomatoes
were also raised on the farm, and canned at a farmer-owned canning factory in
the late 1920s and possibly the early 1930s.
One year the family’s onion crop was destroyed by a flood.
The
family also raised cattle. Ed
Remondini relates and anecdote about their herd drifting many miles in a
blizzard.
Jody McSherry reads from a family history (contained within the file at the Museum Library) written by her brother, David. David discusses selling produce to the workers encamped along the Southern Pacific Railroad. Ed Remondini stated there were twenty to twenty-five of these stations along the railroad between Deming and El Paso.
TAPE
TWO, SIDE B:
The
railroad stops were only six to seven miles apart.
The men were employed repairing the tracks.
The families at these stops were “eager to buy almost anything.”
Discusses
David’s childhood memory of scaffolding being built at the courthouse in
Deming on which Villistas involved in the Columbus raid were to be hung.
Description
of Camp Cody where soldiers were trained prior to World War I, and the great
influenza epidemic that swept the camp, causing the death of “hundreds” of
soldiers.
Ed
Remondini attended country school for only two or three years, and then they
began bussing the children into Deming. Their
“bus” was a “stripped down Model T.”
Oldest
sister, Irene, attended normal school in Silver City and taught in many rural
schools in the area. Olive also
taught school in the smaller country schools.
They
discuss going to see Lindberg on his trip across the United States following his
flight over the Atlantic.
Their
father established a registered herd of Hereford cattle.
On one occasion he shipped some cattle to Los Angeles and “topped the
market.”
Eventually
their father leased some pasture land, and they also began to raise some alfalfa
and feed grain.
Ed
Remondini remembers his father being interviewed by a woman in the late 1920s,
“the very same thing you’re doing.” He
thought she planned to write a book. He
believes it was earlier than any of the WPA projects of the 1930s.
Jody
McSherry comments that her parents said that when they arrived in this area
there were “oceans of grass.” Including
sacaton grass out of which people would make “prairie hay.”
Discussion
of the purchase by their father of the “upper pasture,” and whether this
land had been homesteaded. Describes
the failure of many of these homesteads.
A
peach orchard was planted at the farm in 1926 or 1927; however, in about1925
pecan trees were planted, Ed Remondini believes the first in the Deming area. One year he recalls fifteen to twenty trees produced a
thousand pounds of nuts.
Ed
Remondini doesn’t remember that his sisters did a great deal of work outside.
However, potatoes required “all hand work” for the harvest, and the
first few years before they bought a secondhand potato planter, they were
planted by hand as well. Eventually,
they also purchased a machine to dig potatoes (the potatoes would still have to
be picked up and bagged by hand) from a Chinese-American family who owned a
small truck farm. The family did
most of the work of cutting the potatoes to prepare them for planting.
Potatoes were also labor intensive, because they required frequent
irrigation, every eight days. The potatoes were cultivated using a horse-drawn cultivator.
Six, seven, or eight workhorses were used on the farm at this period of
time.
The
Remondinis always had one family that lived on the farm.
Many of the farm workers came out to the farm from Deming every day for
work.
TAPE
THREE, SIDE A:
Ed
Remondini discusses the first tractor they ever bought for the farm.
A cantankerous John Deere that he one day ran into a tree when he was
attempting to turn it in a small space. His
father didn’t react too badly to the accident, as Ed was the only one who
could operate the tractor. Joe
Remondini never learned to operate any machinery. They purchased their first automobile in 1926, but owned a
truck, “a converted Ford Runabout” before that.
Describes
Joe Remondini getting into a purebred Hereford operation with the assistance of
“one of the doctors” from New Mexico A & M.
Ed recalls going to Nara Visa to bring the cattle back to Deming via
rail.
Remondini
discusses that his father had some crop demonstration plots for NMA&M. Different varieties of crops were grown, the amount of water
they used was carefully monitored, and the yield was measured.
His father worked with Fabian Garcia on potatoes and onions (some
discussion ensues about some photographs found by Jody McSherry).
He also carefully followed the agricultural publications of the
Department of Agriculture. Continue
details on the work involved with crop demonstration.
His father has some problems in finding a potato that would flourish in
the climate and soil, but finally found the Irish Cobbler variety did well. Potatoes were grown on the farm until possibly 1950, after
Jody and her husband had purchased the farm.
The
peach orchard is discussed in more detail, including attempting to save peach
blossoms from freezing by lighting smudge pots (actually buckets) filled with
crude oil; the peach trees eventually only produced fruit on their upper limbs
and it became too labor intensive to harvest the fruit so the trees were
removed.
In
addition to peaches and pecans, the family also raised Bing cherry trees (not
well suited to the climate), pears and had a grape arbor.
Their parents made wine for their own use.
The grape they recall being grown was the White Niagara, which some
people purchased as a table grape.
TAPE
THREE, SIDE B:
Joe
Franzoy who had made the trip from Michigan to New Mexico Territory with their
father originally homesteaded near Carne. However,
when the land proved unsatisfactory he found a farm near Salem, New Mexico.
Discusses
some of the families with children that lived fairly close to their farm. They did not exchange work very often with these families,
because laborers, “mostly Hispanic,” were readily available in Deming.
Ed
Remondini describes that during the Depression two boys offered to harvest their
Sudan grass for fifty cents a day. And
even though they had a row binder, at that price it was cheaper to hire them to
cut, bundle, and tie the grass by hand.
Jody
remembers that later in the Depression they could hire laborers for a dollar a
day with “a meal . . . thrown in.” The
Remondinis did not employ prisoner of war labor during World War II, but did
employ bracero workers probably in the 1950s and 1960s.
Their
father did not plant cotton, only a small test plot in the middle twenties.
He planted chile on a few occasions but it “never panned out.”
Ed Remondini states that chile was also problematical as they didn’t
have the necessary facilities to dry it.
Because
the land was newly broken they did not need to use fertilizer for several years.
They did spread manure on the fields as it added humus to the soil.
Because their crops were diversified they did not plant the same crop in
the same field year after year. After
harvesting potatoes, black-eyed peas were planted.
As a legume, their roots contain nitrogen-laden nodules that return that
important nutrient to the soil. After
this planting they could exact, “an extra good crop of whatever you planted on
that same ground.”
Their
potatoes developed “rust,” so it was important to rotate the crops.
Later, a hardier variety of potato was planted that was not as
susceptible to rust. Ed Remondini
believes that in later years they grew the variety Kennebeck.
TAPE
FOUR, SIDE A:
Interview
continues with Ed Remondini on January 14, 1999.
Began
discussing additional details on the tomato cannery.
It was funded by local farmers and located in Deming; the building is no
longer extant. Remondini believes
that poor management of the cannery led to its demise.
He also mentions that in the early part of the twentieth century there
was also a cannery at the little rail stop of Hondale.
During the time the cannery was operating in Deming each farmer had to
commit to producing a certain amount of tomatoes. Tomatoes grew well in the valley.
Pinto
beans were gown as a cash crop at the same time that potatoes were being grown. Now, very few beans are grown in the valley due to the market
price of beans which was driven down by competition from beans produced in
dryland farming areas. In general,
beans were a less labor intensive crop to produce than potatoes.
Marketing beans or other products into Mexico in the 1920s or 1930s was
difficult due to the lack of good roads.
Remondini
describes a “round of work” for a year from the time he was a boy.
Includes planting and harvesting of potatoes, grains, and vegetable
crops. They were double cropping
both beans and potatoes during this period of time.
They grew corn and dug a silo in the ground, but only used it two of
three times as it was very labor intensive.
TAPE
FOUR, SIDE B:
Discusses
that during the Depression it was difficult to find a crop to plant that would
turn a profit. Onions were planted
for several years, but El Paso was the only market they had for the onions.
His
father did not have any difficulty in obtaining credit at the local bank;
however, that was not the case for other farmers in the area.
Remondini believes his father borrowed money for operating expenses.
While
finding markets for their crops was the most difficult aspect of farming during
the Depression years, labor was readily available in Deming.
They
did a great deal of bartering at the grocery stores; they did not expect to get
cash for their products, but accepted credit instead.
They still used workhorses to a great extent during this time, so did not
have to expend cash for machine parts and replacements.
The
onions would be attacked by an insect called a thrip that was “quite
destructive.” Describes spraying the crop with an insecticide that
“Fabian Garcia . . . was helping us with.”
The machines used to deliver the insecticide were horse-drawn.
Garcia said, “about the only ones (thrips) we killed was the ones the
horses stepped on.” Also
describes trying to kill the boll worms
on cotton by carrying a bag of pesticide in each hand and riding up and down the
rows on horseback dusting the plants.
Discusses
soil conservation and other federal programs targeted to the farmers during the
Depression.
Describes
some community celebrations, the 4th of July in particular.
Economic conditions in Deming were impacted by the railroad, Camp Cody,
and later a tuberculosis sanatorium being located in the town.
The sanatorium was located on the west side of Camp Cody and administered
by the Sisters of the Holy Cross. After
the sanatorium was closed, the buildings burned to the ground.
He
doesn’t recall that his parents observed traditions or holidays from the
Austrian culture. He describes that
his mother did make polenta and describes it.
TAPE
FIVE, SIDE A:
In
addition to cooking polenta, Remondini remembers his mother canning fruit.
Vegetables like cabbage could be kept all winter if they were stored in
the ground covered with soil and straw. Discusses
that the family always raised chickens and had eggs to eat.
Kerosene
was used as a remedy for colds. A
doctor was always available in Deming; however, Remondini doesn’t remember any
health emergencies.
Discusses
that family’s involvement in the Catholic Church in Deming.
His father also spent a great deal of time reading and educating himself.
His mother sewed most of the children’s clothing.
They had a radio and also visited with their neighbors.
They played cards in the family, and made ice cream for birthdays and on
Sundays.
The
consultant graduated from high school in 1932, and stayed at home and worked on
his father’s farm until 1937 when he married the first time.
After his marriage, his father helped him purchase a farm across the road
from the homestead. He initially
raised potatoes and beans, but later planted cotton.
He did not serve in the military because he had three children when World
War II started.
During
World War II labor was difficult to find, “the only help we had was . . . the
little kids from town.” They
assisted with harvesting cotton and potatoes.
Occasionally the children were dismissed from school in order to assist
with the harvest. They did not
start to mechanize until after World War II.
The
biggest change in farming in Remondini’s lifetime has been in “finance.”
When asked what he thought about farming in the future he replied,
“Stay out of it. That’s what I
think.” He states that even a
“real big operation” is in “debt all the time.”
TAPE
FIVE, SIDE B:
Continues
the discussion of the viability of farming today.
He believes that the drastic changes occurred in the farming economy
immediately following World War II; the change was related in a large degree to
the cost of mechanization. Both
labor and credit are also more difficult to obtain.
Sometimes when farms are turned over to the next generation, “some of
’em have lost everything.” He
says, “Because the young ones just won’t do what the old ones did,” as far
as making sacrifices and working hard.
Although
retired, Mr. Remondini still owns his farm and likes to go over and check on the
progress frequently.
Discusses
his siblings and their careers. His
parents believed it was important for the children to complete high school.
TAPE
SIX, SIDE A:
The
interview continues on January 19, 1999, with Clara Jo “Jody” McSherry and
her husband, G.X. McSherry. The
initial portion of the interview details aspects of rural living in the 1930s
and 1940s. Jody discusses her father obtaining books on agriculture and
other subjects from his employer, Mr. Dornbush. He also obtained pamphlets and other material from New Mexico
A & M in Las Cruces. Discusses
double cropping of potatoes and beans and raising other crops such as onions and
peaches. Jody describes a desert
her mother would make from the small, second crop of peaches, called peach-o.
Her
mother sewed for relaxation in the evening.
Only staples were purchased in town.
They raised hogs and made their own hams and sausages.
Describes her mother making polenta, egg noodles, and ravioli.
She also made a special bread, a cornette, which was very crusty.
She made sauerkraut with pork. Polenta
would be served in many different ways, for example, sliced and toasted on a
griddle then eaten with cheese. They
had a variety of food available to them.
As
the youngest child in the family, her experiences were much different than those
of her older siblings. For one
thing her parents were “very comfortable” financially.
Jody
describes a typical day in her life as a child of eleven or twelve.
She didn’t do a great deal of cooking, cleaning, or sewing.
In the case of cooking her “mother didn’t like anybody in her
kitchen, I mean (chuckles), that was her domain.”
Also her father did not want her mother to teach her to cook as he had a
“delicate tummy.” She was not allowed to play in the house, unless it was to
play cards or read a book. Mr.
McSherry states that the same rules applied at his home while he was growing up.
Jody would occasionally help with the farm work by checking on the cattle
for her father.
TAPE
SIX, SIDE B:
Her
father enjoyed traveling, as well as reading.
She names the periodicals to which the family subscribed.
Her father was a staunch believer in assimilating into the American
culture. He did not teach the
children to speak the Italian or German language.
In that way her family was different than her relatives that remained in
Michigan where there was a larger group of people who had immigrated to that
area. Other than some of the food
they ate, the only other cultural trait the family maintained was there
religion, Catholicism. Even her
father’s making of wine was not pursued with the same fervor as it was by
other immigrant families they knew. Her
parents, unlike many immigrants, never had the intention of returning to Europe
but rather wanted to become American citizens.
Jody’s
father was opposed to the New Deal programs of the 1930s.
He was a staunch Republican.
Description
of treatment for migraine headaches; however, there was not much illness in the
family.
Discussion
of neighbors of the Remondini family. G.X.
McSherry states that after World War II those small farms that had provided a
living for a family were no longer economically viable in the new economy.
The G.I. Bill offered opportunities for young men to get an education.
Jody
describes hunting for mushrooms in the mountains.
Her mother dried many of them. She
would cook the mushrooms and feed some to the cat to determine whether they were
poisonous.
Jody
discusses that she attended college at New Mexico A & M.
TAPE
SEVEN, SIDE A:
Visiting
with neighbors was one method rural people had to educate themselves, to learn
what their neighbors were doing, what worked and what didn’t.
Jody
discusses belonging to the 4-H club as a child.
She was taught cooking and sewing.
Jody
and G.X. McSherry married on December 27, 1945.
G.X. had not served in World War II because he was needed to run his
father’s ranch and farm. He was
also “under the supervision of the extension service to help with the other
farms and ranches . . . up and down the valley.”
He had a 2-C agricultural deferment.
The two of them first met when their parents were involved in some
business together. Jody graduated
from high school in 1944 and attended three semesters of college before her
marriage.
Jody
states that in the Deming area the men from the CCC camps constructed “outdoor
privies” out of cast concrete. He
mother called one of them the “Roosevelt toilet.”
Jody
discusses that her father “wouldn’t hear” of her going into the cadet
nurse corp., “you can go to . . . New Mexico A & M, or you can stay
home.” Against her wishes she
enrolled in Home Economics at college, but she found that some young women were
enrolled in agriculture, “I didn’t have enough sense to say . . . [or] do
something about” getting her major changed.
The
remainder of the interview details the changes in the farm from 1945 when the
farm was purchased from the Remondinis by G.X. and Jody McSherry.
When
G.X. bought the farm he did not have experience with row crops or with
irrigation techniques in the type of soil they had at the farm.
They were in-between “being mechanized and still using workhorses.”
The Remondinis only stayed on the farm with the McSherrys until April of
1946 after the first potato crop was planted.
Discussion
of the evolution in farm equipment from two-row planters, plows and cultivators
to the large machinery they have today. Cultivating
with a horse a person could work five acres per day, nowadays with modern
equipment a person could cultivate forty acres by noon.
Discusses
irrigation techniques in 1945 and the improvements in the irrigation system over
time.
Two
years after they took over the farm, the McSherrys began to raise cotton.
Cotton became more feasible to raise after laborers became available
through the bracero program. There
was a privately owned gin in the area; however, “if you didn’t sell to them
they wouldn’t gin your cotton.”
Discusses
that pinto beans remained an important crop and they also double cropped barley.
They also raised hegari and potatoes.
Potatoes soon became uneconomical, as competition increased.
TAPE
SEVEN, SIDE B:
It
is important to double crop and maintain a revenue stream year around in order
to be able to employ workers on a permanent, year around basis.
Discussion
how additional acreage was acquired and added to the farm.
On one occasion this was done in order to obtain water rights, as they
were having problems defining the water rights for the farm.
Describes
clearing the newly acquired property as a contrast to clearing the land when the
farm was first homesteaded. Eventually,
they planted eighty percent of their farm in cotton, but continued to raise
cattle. The last crop of pinto
beans was planted in 1954.
Discusses
additional changes in the irrigation system culminating in laying an underground
pipeline, which saved about thirty percent of the water used.
More
land was purchased when state school sections were offered for sale.
Describes clearing that land with an elevated scraper.
When
they bought the farm the couple was told that they could make $5000 per year.
This compared very favorable to the $3500 per year McSherry was offered
for a job in California.
Discusses
changes in the economics of farming; eventually it became economically
unfeasible to grow cotton. He then
gives an example of growing a beautiful field of onions that he owed $5000 on by
the time they were harvested and marketed.
Now,
cattle has become their main crop. They
are able to grow feed and operate their own feedlot where they buy cattle at
five hundred pounds and feed them to eight hundred pounds.
The are then finished at feedlots in eastern New Mexico, Texas, or
Kansas. They got into the cattle
business by borrowing $800 from a neighbor to buy ten head of cattle.
Initially, they fed the cattle in “big tubs,” now the weighing of
feed and feeding are all handled mechanically.
Over time they have added an elevator and feed mill and can feed “a
couple thousand head” of cattle. Their
policy is to buy local, acclimated cattle.
Cattle now account for forty percent of their production.
They also run a cow/calf operation of about a hundred head.
In
1983, the McSherrys’ son, David, joined them as farm manager.
They list their other children’s names.
G.X.
McSherry discusses his feelings about people getting into agriculture.
He believes they could still do so if they took a manager position for an
older farmer or an absentee land owner.
TAPE
EIGHT, SIDE A:
McSherry
states that he has always had a “five-year program” that is flexible.
He believes that agriculture has become a “political football.”
When he served in the state legislature the issue of water was his key
interest.
Continues
to describe changes in agriculture. Finding
a stable market is a challenge. A
farmer has to be able and willing to hold out through years when there is not
much profit in agriculture.
Jody
McSherry relates some childhood memories and discusses her parents’ final
years after they left the farm in 1946.
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